VP Harris.....

People shuddered at the thought of a reduced IRS.....& no write-offs.

 I agree with you about Hillary being a better politician. But there something about her I just didn't like......always thought she was a snake in the grass.......& I was right.

@Raiders22

@THEMUGG

 From my research, Hillary is pure evil.

@jpot34

  She hid it fairly well during her glory days.

@Raiders22

 The measure was of VP, my list was about those who served as VP, and how do we know what she might be as POTUS until she is?

Do I think she would be a better world leader than Trump? What do you think? Every POTUS has been a better world leader than Trump so it is an easy answer.

@wallstreetcappers

 Gotcha 

Yeah. I was referring in general to candidates one would prefer to be President.  Not sure Vice-President matters that much about overall because few people vote on who the candidate for Vice-President is, unless the plan was to see them as eventual president.  I am not sure too many voted for Vance or Harris.

I get that you do not like Trump.  That part of the question would be candidates a Trump, or Independent person would have preferred over Trump.  So, that half of the question would not be a good question for you.  I think you would vote your local dog catcher over Trump.  I get that for the anti-Trump folks.  Maybe I might be curious of the 18 or so Republican candidates and why from the first run.  But I do not think it would be a good discussion because of their hatred of Trump.  I do wonder if Haley or Bush, etc. had won how much pure vitriol they would have had for them as opposed to Trump.  I know Republicans tha feel this way, even. Maybe Kasich was the only one that would have been less open to that.  I get the sense that it might be close to what it is now, no matter who had won.

My question for you would be what candidates, or politicians, in the past that you think were worse than your favorite from the last election.  You say Biden was worse than Harris.  That was the only democrat you listed.  Hard for me to see Biden as worse than her.  So, you do not see any past Democrat candidates as worse than her?

@wallstreetcappers

 Yep! 

Moreover, that's not just the opinion of a few. The only major polls (3) of scholarly EXPERTS/analysts on the subject have all concluded almost exactly the same!  The most recent survey of analytical presidential experts - the largest one - was published January 2024 and had trump ranked dead last among *ALL* 45 presidents at the time. (Joe Biden was ranked 14th) 

The previous two massive surveys of EXPERTS - which had no knowledge of all the fraud and criminal indictments against him and a jury finding he was guilty of sexual assault (rape) - even without that knowledge, they still placed him in the bottom 4 all-time. 

 All three surveys of presidential EXPERTS - those who actually study and analyze various aspects of presidential leadership and qualities - found trump WORST of all modern day presidents (ie, since WW2).

And that dates back before this highly controversial 2nd term - which would lower his ranking even further if that were even possible!

When things like "every" leader has been better than the current guy but previously talk about the state of things being hugely divisive and inequitable (general consensus not said by anyone specifically here) then it would be a logical conclusion that prior leadership hasn't be very good.

I continue to hold the majority of people, uninformed as they were, believed whatever her attributes Harris would do much for them whereas Trump would or could.

@Raiders22

 Why does the measure have to be a worse DEM to you? I dont care what political side someone is on as I mentioned above and have many times in the past I am more about the qualities of the person and if they are more centrist and middle in their political leanings and decision making. I do not like the extremes on both parties but I think you make a great point for me...that the GOP really does not have centrist candidates or if they are centrist they are pretty boring and uninspiring. I would call Romney more centrist I would call McCain a centrist as well and yet those two names you mentioned as being ones you were not impressed with. This is a great point that the GOP lacks centrists and your party is controlled by far extremists and has been for a long time. I think the last GOP centrist was Reagan and that is probably due to him not really being a true politician and having his past with democrats and being the gov of a democrat state and being an actor. Since Reagan there has not been an elected centrist where I would call Clinton a centrist I would also shocking to you call Obama a centrist. 

As to your question but not sure why I need to name DEMS that are worse than Harris, I named Biden  I would also put Sanders in that category were Bernie is a great speaker and very motivational very intelligent but he is too extreme and too socialist to accomplish centrist collective objectives. I would also call Pete worse I would call Newsome worse and I would call Hills worse...she is worse not for a lack of intelligence and being crafty being experienced and able to be a centrist, I consider her very devious and not trustworthy, she is too dark and deceptive for me personally and I did not support her election which observations I have made here MANY times over the past.

@unplucked_gem

 Yup Harris was not a bold faced liar and thug like Trump who is blame oriented and had every solution to any problem and made it seem to simple and grade school. People fell for a liar a cheat a con and a crappy person, they were lied to and his lack of accomplishments to HIS MEASURES are proof and fact of this. 

The con was successful as cons often times are, Harris was not a con and was not an abusive derisive thug, Trump was and MEN like that...MEN on both sides.

@wallstreetcappers

 Why does the measure have to be a worse DEM to you?

It doesn't for me.  I assumed it does for you because that is all you listed.

That is why I asked you about those of your party?  I just assume all of the other party would fall in that category.

That is why I asked the other guy about both parties as well.

Yeah, if being your version of 'centrist' is the only factor, maybe Sanders.  But Biden and Newsom?  That is surprising to me.

Did you factor in her record as a Senator?  That would not be indicative of a 'centrist' really.

@Raiders22

 There is a difference between voting along party lines and your own personal views and thoughts so I would expect most GOP politicians to vote along party lines, we see that every freaking day here this year and her voting record is probably right in that same vein. I gave my definition of centrist so that to me means not on the extremes and able to navigate and work with the other side regularly and successfully. My list and answers are to that measure and my suggestion is that we need more centrist not extremists and for the GOP the project 2025 nonsense and religious fringes, on the DEM side less far out socialism and turning DEI into something it should not be, the extremes are not what the middle of America wants or needs on both sides politically.

When you ask me a pointed question as you did above how do you consider that being for ME in any sense? I answered your question and you then tried to turn it into a partisan DEM discussion again, that was not at all about ME it was for sure about you. "MY" party is centrists, your answers kind of make that point which is the GOP does not have centrists so my search for the greater good to those in most need means I cannot look to GOP candidates, they are not centrists and it also means the DEM side might have attributes I might not agree with but the overall goal of serving those in this country who have the least and the most needs cannot be done on the extremes. Since the GOP is filled with extremes it does not give much choice.

@wallstreetcappers

 No sir.  I am simply saying take your own side and ask the question(s) from both directions. Better, worse; from either party.

Who would you rather have run instead of Harris in the last 15-20 years?  There should be easy answers for that. for most people.

Yes, it is a simply opinion-base question.  It is not like there is a right or wrong answer.

Usually, when I pose that question about a politician folks will list several and have a few different reasons they preferred one or the other.  This reasons will run the gamut of things from policies, leadership, experience, respect, unity, world respect.  I have never had anyone just say they were more centrist.  Some will list folks from either party they preferred over the current ones.  For example, a lot of Republicans would list Bill Clinton over Trump.  

So, when you list yours and say they were not as centrist and that is the sole reason the question has to be asked what your definition is.  It is vague as far as policy stuff.

I assume you think Harris would somehow have stances all of a sudden that would be more centrist than the ones she had before as a Senator, etc.  I would wonder how you came to that conclusion.  Or you think those stances were already centrist.  That would also be puzzling to me.  The issue is the very issues you think she would be centrist on are, by definition, too polarizing to be met dead in the middle.  So, I would not see her as someone that could unify folks toward the middle on divisive issues.  I could see many other Democrats that could do this.

I think even Sanders would be able to do this on some issues.  He for sure might have his pet project issues he would not want to compromise on.  But I think he would be more respected there and abroad and has the experience in lawmaking to get things done.  I think Harris would keep things at a standstill.

She could not, or refused to, articulate her stances and differentiate them from Biden well enough to garner interest in a national campaign.  So, I am not sure she could have done any better with a few hundred lawmakers.

But, like I said, it is your opinion and there is not really a right or wrong answer.  I just have not seen anyone that held Harris in as high regard as you do.

I appreciate your answer though.

So, you're looking for a devils advocate discussion

@ABooksNightmare

 Nah.  Just curious who folks thought were better or worse candidates in the past than the last two folks.

@Raiders22

"I assume you think Harris would somehow have stances all of a sudden that would be more centrist than the ones she had before as a Senator, etc. I would wonder how you came to that conclusion."

It would have been interesting to see if she had any stances at all either of her own or provided.

I suspect it would've been a continuation of what the American people viewed as intense gaslighting on the most fundamental question for majority Americans: US or Them.

One party appeared to choose them and the other was trying to get back to us.

@Raiders22

 #489

So how was you asking me to discuss a topic and angle you wanted to try and exploit for ME? Do not say NO SIR as an answer to my question. How was asking me to try and corner me into a DEM answer after I already answered the Q for ME...you said it was for ME...so please explain how it was for ME.

No other replies or tangents needed, just answer how what your question was is for ME...lets just call it what it is and skip the silly dance you are trying here.

@unplucked_gem

 DAD says that people were lied to and conned which is true and is fact, that was the reason for the election results. Lies and falsehoods were purported and people are lazy so they could not see Trump was and is a liar and Biden was blamed for all and any which was also a lie but the lie worked and here we are.

It was not originally for you.  You decided to answer which I appreciate.  I then decided, cool let anyone else answer that would like to.

'No sir" was just pointing out that you took it out of context is all.

It is not a silly dance.  It was just a simple 'who would you have preferred from the past or present you would rather have seen run'. 

You could not think of anyone better than Harris and very few worse than her that were Democrats.

That is fine.  I just do not know anyone else that thinks that highly of her is all.

@unplucked_gem

Yes.  That was one of my issues I had with her early on.  This was her opportunity to do that and she blew it.

But she did not improve on the way she presented herself from her first campaign.  She needed better strategists.

The folks would really like to vote for a woman at this point.  But she is who she is at this point and that is not who the people want.

I think it is too late to reinvent herself.  

Some folks are cut out for a national presence and some are not.  She is not cut out for it.

As one guy pointed out, she was too used to running on who she was and not want she had done.

So, yes.  I think you are correct it would have been a continuation because Biden was gone at that point and the same folks that were running him would have been running her.  The folks simply did not want that continuation.

That was why she was given multiple and multiple chances to sit down with folks and set herself apart.  She does not even admit to this day what a huge blunder that was to not do that.  People wanted and needed change and she did not give them that.